Jervis and Andy Hall Chat Room session on 11/11/2000 at WWW.BLOODBOWL.NET (a great site for
Blood Bowl maintained by Milo Sharp (who is also keeper of the Blood Bowl mailing list))  

Important Players:
Jervis Johnson (creator of Blood Bowl) = Jervis (in red)
Andy Hall (Co-worker on Blood Bowl) = AndyHall (in green)
Milo Sharp (owner of the chat room and the BB mailing list) = Milo (in blue)
John Kipley Lewis (official BB chatroom liason for Jervis) = jklewis (in orange)

[LOGIN] Jervis 
Razorwing: Well, well, well. 
Milo: Andy Hall is "Jervis' Coffeeboy." =) 
jklewis:: Welcome Jervis 
Jervis: Hello All 
Milo: Welcome, Jervis. 
Razorwing: Hello, Jervis. 
Scortch: hi jervis :) 
Kurtangle: hail to the jervis King , is he a fake??? 
Zombie: Hey, Jervis is here! All hail Jervis! 
Kurtangle: i want to believe but it's hard....you need a lotta fate... 
Zombie: change your color scortvh 
jklewis:: Scortch, change colors, that one is all but unreadable. 
Kurtangle: faith even .... 
[LOGIN] AndyHall 
Kurtangle: Welcome Jervis....... 
Kurtangle: howdy andy..... 
jklewis:: Welcome Andy! 
Milo: Hi, Andy! 
Milo: It's the real Jervis. 
Zombie: milo, i also suggest you delete all those unreadable colors from the choices 
Scortch: hows this ? 
Jervis: Hi Andy! 
Kurtangle: how many big creatures , how many big creatures!!! 
Milo: That's a good idea, Zombie. 
AndyHall: hello 
Zombie: much better 
Kurtangle: 2222222222 
Milo: I won't do it now, because I don't want to risk breaking the chatroom. 
Kurtangle: i mean 2,2,2,2,2. Is is two.... 
Scortch: good not use to this chat system 
Milo: Before we get started... 
Kurtangle: i'm just excited by the presence of Jervis 
Milo: Let me ask all of you how you heard about this, so I know how to 
advertise any future chat sessions? 
Zombie: Hey, since the big guys are here, we could start asking questions now 
AndyHall: Got here early then Jervis? 
Jervis: Yes, it really is me, though how I prove it I don't know 
Kurtangle: From your website 
Gregg: I heard about it on the BB Mailing List. 
Zombie: Heard of it on the BBC, of course :-) 
Kurtangle: Were you ever at Gaelcon? 
Razorwing: Send an e-mail to Milo, for confirmation. 
[LOGIN] Ioda 
AndyHall: I can prove it ;-) 
Milo: I've already gotten an email from Jervis. I can vouch that it's the real 
him. 
Razorwing: Hehe 
Kurtangle: Jervis, what color jumper did you have on at Gaelcon '97 
Razorwing: Well, alrighty then. : ) 
Kurtangle: ????? 
Gregg: I'd like to discuss the new Secret Weapons in 4th Edition. There's some real neat ideas in there! 
Kurtangle: Was Andy Chamber's with you? 
Jervis: I don't think I *had* a jumper! 
Kurtangle: You the man Jervis, you the man! 
Zombie: hey, are all of you guys from canada, usa or uk? 
AndyHall: Bless'em 
Scortch: im in usa 
Milo: Now that we're all certain Jervis is Jervis... 
Kurtangle: Ok guys, what happens now? 
Ioda: usa 
Kurtangle: i'm from Ireland! 
Gregg: U.S.A. 
Milo: Let the questions begin! 
Jervis: Putting secret weapons on the Star Player cards was a fudge, so I'm 
pleased with the new rules. 
Kurtangle: That's brilliant Jervis, brilliant.... 
Milo: By the way, everyone -- I'm keeping a log of this that I'll post on the 
website for anyone who doesn't make it today. 
AndyHall: Onew at a time if you please... 
Scortch: so when is the usa getting the bloodbowl magazine ? 
Zombie: if so, i could ring any of you for free with go2call. unfortunately, i don't think i can make a 
conference with that program 
Gregg: Are the new Secret Weapons players allowed to develop once a weapon is given to them? 
jklewis:: Here's a question: On pg. 8 of the BBMag you have the allies list.
 For Chaos it's "Daemon Dwarf, Dark Elf..." Should that read "Daemon, Chaos Dwarf, Dark 
Elf..."??? 
AndyHall: 19th November I think... 
Razorwing: Scortch, you can purchase it easily through Fanatic's online store, and receive it within ten 
days or so. 
Scortch: coolies 
Jervis: It should say Daemon, Cahaos Dwarf etc 
Zombie: ok just forget what i said 
Jervis: Gregg, players with secret weapons can develop 
Scortch: naaa i can wait , our season not ready to start yet anyways 
[LOGIN] Anthonytbbf 
jklewis:: Is it possible to kill the DeathRoll? If so, how? 
Scortch: over in my area of usa we have had problems from time to time actually getting copies , how 
many are being sent compared to previous compendiums ? 
Anthonytbbf: Hi everyone. 
[LOGIN] Bevan 
AndyHall: Yes you may have noticed a few, er typo's but thats what 
happens wjhen we let steve proof read 
Jervis: Do you guys know that BB will be back on sale in the US for Xmas? 
Kurtangle: Look jervis, the ally list means some teams can have several big guys,,,,should there be a 
limit, like 2 maybe and the human team can only have 1 big guy, does this weaken them in the new rules 
jklewis:: No! That great news! 
Milo: I know my local hobby shop just ordered six sets. 
Milo: They said they couldn't get the teams, though. 
Zombie: what about that question about secret weapons? can they still get skills? can they use them when 
the have the weapon? can they decide to keep the weapon in the dugout? 
Scortch: good to hear jervis 
Ioda: Will there be an amazon team box set of mini's? 
Jervis: I'll be making sure the game & teams can be got from MO in the UK & 
Us 
Gregg: Are all of the Deathrollers the same? Would the Gobs have the same starting stats as a Dwarf's? 
AndyHall: Ioda, You can get an amazon deal 
Jervis: Amazons will just come 'loose', from Mail Order (MO) 
Anthonytbbf: OUr local GW has a huuuuge pile of tems and blisters in the back room :) 
Scortch: very good question gregg , what bout the skaven deathroller ? 
Razorwing: Following the development of treemen miniatures, what other miniatures are in the works 
for the 4th edtion rules? 
Fnolan 
Kurtangle: just for the record Jervis, i'm at my computer with a few friends, we just want to say thanks 
for your stuff over the years. It means a lot to us sentimental gamers.... 
AndyHall: We dont have the resources to package stuff 
Jervis: Greg, I'd need to look up the rules on Deathrollas, why not email us 
the question 
1AndyHall: razorwing, I think lizardman models are next 
Gregg: Sure thing! 
Razorwing: That was my next question, Andy. : ) 
Milo: Jervis -- can you cc me on any answers to questions like that, so I can 
post them on the site soemwhere? 
Ioda: great thanks. 
Scortch: YES LIZARDMEN :) 
AndyHall: correct me if i'm wrong jervis 
Milo: What's the real store on the Lizardman minis from GD2000? 
Jervis: We've got Lizardmen in thw works, new Human & Ork players and a 
big barbarian... 
Milo: I heard that they were yanked from production because there were 
copyright problems between GWUS and GWUK? 
AndyHall: he he quite a famous barbarian... 
Zombie: so what about all those seacret weapons? 
Milo: THRUDD! 
Gregg: I am very impressed with how the new rules do not allow allied Big Guys not to use rerolls. This 
keeps them from being to overpowering. Of course, Skaven can use them for the Rat Ogres, but Wild 
Animal can be scary for the coach who has it... 
Kurtangle: Burrrrkkk! 
Jervis: The Lizardmen at GD were made quickly for GW US, converted 
plastics. The new ones will be 'bespoke' new miniatures. 
jklewis:: Jervis, have you been secretly monitoring the BBList, it appears 
that some of your changes are close to some ideas that people there have posted. BTW, I appreaciate you 
being on the BBList from time to time and I'm especially fond of the "long winded" answers you give. It 
helps to have some insight into your thinking on mechanics when coming up with local rulings and rules. 
Milo: The GWUS Lizardmen aren't bad (I've got them), but I'd like to see 
more BB-ized ones. 
Jervis: I'm just back on the bblist, last week. So it must be a case of 'great 
minds...' 
Scortch: how much if any play testing has been done on this 4th edition ? 
jklewis:: Gregg, have you read the new rules for Wild Animal? You no 
longer have a chance to attack your own players. 
Jervis: Of course, someof the changes go waay back to the last time I was 
around. 
AndyHall: I keep an eye on BBcentral (its to scary for Jervis :-) 
Milo: Good question, Scortch. I was going to ask that one myself. 
jklewis:: AndyHall: What BB teams are you 
currently playing? 
Gregg: Uh-oh, we wrongly took it for granted that you could... 
Razorwing: What is the highest team rating achieved by a GW play-tester using the new 4th ed. ruling on 
'appearance fees' ? 
AndyHall: 4th Ed has had well over a 100 games at the Hq league 
Jervis: Quite a lot really. The least tested rule is the one skill per action, but 
that has 'good shape' so I put it in 
Zombie: ok, another question then. if the big guys are not allowed rerolls anymore because they are 
allies, isn't that unfair because skaven, goblins and chaos dwarves will still be able to use rerolls for their 
big guys? 
Anthonytbbf: Can Daemonic Aura be defeated by a card that automatically breaks armour (essentially 
killing the player). 
jklewis:: Greg: Currently Wild Animal forces that player to move first, and
 they can't get assists for blocks or fouling. They also are Frenzied. 
Scortch: When receiving a block can u use multiple skills ? 
AndyHall: I mainly play Chaos ( thats how the daemon rules came about) 
but I also love the good old humies 
Jervis: We found that teams 'top out' roiund about a team rating of 300-350 
Milo: Slow the questions down a little, guys. Give them a chance to answer. 
Kurtangle: one skill only i think 
Gregg: JK, thanks. I looked it up. Haven't used the latest version yet. No Skaven or Minotaur this season 
so far... 
Kurtangle: let's just give one question and wait till it's answered 
[LOGIN] duggage 
jklewis:: Andy: I like the new Daemon teams. I also like that they have 
very limited allies compared to straight Chaos teams, thus giving you a reason to play straight Chaos. 
Jervis: When receiving a block (i.e. its not your turn) yoiu can use any number 
of skills 
AndyHall: good idea 
jklewis:: Hey Dug! 
duggage: Heya! 
Scortch: ouch for the offensive block then, much harder to accomplish 
jklewis:: To keep things sane, try to put the name of the person you are 
talking to before your message. 
Gregg: Perhaps someone could mention a topic that we can stick with for awhile? 
Milo: Lots of people have questions the Daemonic Aura "trait". Does any 
breaking of armor kill the daemon, or does it have to cause a casualty? 
jklewis:: Doug: this would be an exmaple. 
[LOGIN] Doppelganger 
Kurtangle: Jervis, can you answer my question about big guys, 
Zombie: also try to ask questions that are not already answered in the BBmag. that way we can get some 
real issues sorted out. thanks. 
Jervis: Lets do the daemon trair first 
AndyHall: No, you would need to cause a casualty to banish them (they are 
fragile enough0 (milo) 
Zombie: we could stick to big guys now and move on 
Milo: I'm not sure if that's good or not, but thanks for the clarification. Those 
daemons sound nasty. 
Jervis: OK Kurtangle, what was the question again? 
Kurtangle: zombie, thanks.. 
AndyHall: I did want to tinker with them for 4th Ed but jervis said they 
were fine 
jklewis:: Andy: What's been your experience with Daemons in league 
play? Do they die and cause problems for the team, or do they seems to be a thorn in opponents sides? 
Scortch: Jervis have there been any thots to a new more appropriate big guy for the Dark Elves ? 
Kurtangle: the ally list allows some teams to have several big guys... does this unbalance the game in any 
way, should there be a limit , maybe 2... and is the human team weakened by only having one big guy 
Jervis: Scortch - not planning any new Big Guys just yet 
[LOGIN] CeleTheRef 
Zombie: there has always been a limit of 2 for big guys. 
Bevan: Why no Big Guy for High Elves? 
AndyHall: daemons are a double -edged sword thy can be going great (i 
had a mega bloodletter last season, but all it needs is one lucky goblin to get that casualty... 
Scortch: okey dokey 
Zombie: i've got one question about big guys that hasn't been answered. is it considered fair that skaven, 
goblins and chaos dwarves can use rerolls for their big guys and the other teams can't? 
AndyHall: that was for JK lewis 
Jervis: The ally rules limit the number of Big Guys you can have, so no other 
limit is needed (only one of each ally race) 
Scortch: and lizardmen too zombie 
AndyHall: Zombie , well yes because they are part of that race. 
Kurtangle: Milo, is there an option to let the text just scroll by itself, the scroll bar is doing my head 
in....thanks 
Zombie: Jervis: you're saying that the limit of 2 big guys per team doesn't apply 
anymore? 
Jervis: Zombie, I think its OK becuase the Big Guys are 'buoilt into ' thos 
teams and they are balanced out to have them 
[LOGIN] Jim 
Scortch: hi jim :) 
AndyHall: see, just like Jervis said 
Gregg: So under the present rules the Humans can get 1 Ogre and Chaos can get 1 Daemon, 1 Troll, 1 
Rat Ogre, 1 Minotaur, 1 Ogre, 1 Vampire and 1 Bull Centaur? 
Jervis: Zombie, yes the old '2 Big Guys' limit no longer applies. 
Scortch: oh dear heavens :( 
CeleTheRef: Ehil. All OK here? 
Bevan: Have Skaven been playtested with 2 Rat Ogres (with rerolls) plus Minotaurs? 
AndyHall: thats a scary team gregg 
Zombie: and why don't wild animals not go wild anymore? was that skill considered too negative? i 
always thought it was the less negative of them all... 
Jervis: Gregg, yup, that's right! 
duggage: Remember these blokes have negatives too. 
Anthonytbbf: Ouch!!! 
CeleTheRef: sure 
duggage: Whereas the human team won't. and you won't be able to use TRRs for them. 
jklewis:: Gregg: Note that none of those Big Guys get Team RRs. 
AndyHall: Wild animal still has its down side 
Scortch: not that negative with the one skill on a block tho duggage 
Jervis: To Milo - thanks I'm OK for a while yet! 
Gregg: I can see where Chaos can have some fun, but almost no use of rerolls and of course their neg. 
skills! 
Scortch: it now has a downside andyhall ? 
Zombie: that chaos team is out of wack! if i play 4th ed, i'll have to keep implementing the 2 big guy limit 
or it will get out of hand! 
Scortch: having played a minataur team i dint see one 
Doppelganger: Jervis: you've given the impression that the appearance fees and 
one skill per turn are designed to allow leagues with many different levels (TRs) to play against each 
other 
Doppelganger: on fairly equal footing, what are your feelings on leagues that periodically restart with 
new teams and thus don't run into the conflict. do you feel the new rules would still 
Doppelganger: be neccessary (or as neccessary) under those conditions? 
AndyHall: just call me Andy ;-) well you want to make that game winning 
pass but you've still got to move that big guy first... 
Doppelganger: and sorry about having to do that backwards 
AndyHall: yoiu know how clumsy they can be... 
Scortch: i just gave the ball to those that lost it , and its only on a one anyways 
Jervis: To Doppelganger: The new rules don't really 'click in' until teams get 
to a igh level, so if you restart league soon enough it won't make much difference if they are used or not 
jklewis:: Andy: Very clumsy. More so when you stick a big guy on them 
first. 
Zombie: let's stick with big guy questions for a while before we switch subject, to keep it simple in here... 
Scortch: once i got block for them i started tearing up the place 
Kurtangle: Do you absolutely HAVE to move a Wild Animal first, or is there an option to not move him 
at all, instead, andy? 
AndyHall: You can not move him but then why bother having him on the 
pitch? 
jklewis:: Jervis, Andy: Kurt brins up a good question. With wild animal, 
can you simply pass that players turn? 
AndyHall: and yes he has to go first 
Zombie: if the play is crucial, i sure won't move my big guy and risk a turnover. i'll score straight away. 
Kurtangle: If you got a guy one square from the endzone....then the Minotaur could knock himself down 
and screw everything up! 
Jervis: Kurtngle: If Wild animals are to perform an action they must goi first. 
Note they don't get assists anymore, which can be bad news, especially as they are also frenzied. 
Kurtangle: o, sometimes, it pays to leave him alone for that important turn... 
Gregg: Andy: I enjoyed your article on the Treemen. With Take Root as a skill and only 8 Big Guys 
being allowed on the field, how can any Treeman team put of a offense or defense? 12 could never have
 done it. Also, what was the decision for cutting it to 8 f 
CeleTheRef: Is this your first time in this chat??? 
Zombie: i think the wild animal trait is now totally positive and is no longer a negative skill at all 
jklewis:: Jervis: Can I simply say I'm taking a 
"move" action and move zero squares? Is that a legal action? If I take an action, do I have to do 
something? 
AndyHall: dont forget they have to make that block with frenzy and if they 
are already next to an opponent... 
Jervis: Gregg: I cut the Big Guy teams to eight, it makes life good and hard 
for them. We laughed a lot about the idea of a treeman team! 
Razorwing: For the sake of confirmation: A failed bonehead roll does NOT cause a turnover, correct? 
Bevan: Wild Animal is nowhere near as bad as take root or off for a bite 
Zombie: but they still can take no action at all. 
duggage: Andy and JJ: as a follow-up(not wanting to get off-topic), is it then the case that you don't 
actually have to move a fanatic or Wild animal if you don't want to? 
Milo: Andy: Does Frenzy force you to make a block if you start a turn 
adjacent to an opposing player? 
duggage: Seems a bit confusing. I thought they had to move first. Meaning you have to do something 
with them. 
AndyHall: He he who said there was any chance of a treeman team being 
able to miount an offence 
Jervis: With regard Frenzy, you don't have to block an adjcent opponent , you
 must follow up and blockj again 
AndyHall: Milo I always believed so but ask Jervis for the oficial ruling.. 
Zombie: all it says is that you can't play a wild animal if someone has already played. it doesn't say 
anything about having to play every turn. 
Milo: That's what I thought re: Frenzy. Which really does make Wild Animal 
not as negative a skill as some of the others. 
[LOGIN] Fnolan 
Zombie: frenzy forces you to make a block? since when? 
Doppelganger: the high elves currently have no big guys, in your leagues, has this caused a problem in 
that they are unable to match the strength of other teams offenses, or do they seem to be able to balance 
out with just their innate team against teams with all the e 
AndyHall: Zombie read what jervis just said... 
Zombie: ok thanks 
Jim: Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late. Slept in. Sorry to change the subjest, but did anyone mention why 
Dauntless is one of the only positive skills listed as a trait? 
Kurtangle: It seems to me that a wild animal SHOULD have to block (with frenzy an all), any opponent 
standing in front of him at the start of his turn...that would be a kick in the teeth for those dirty little 
skaven!!!! 
Jervis: OK Guys, you've convinced me that I should take a look at wild 
animal and see about making it a bit more of a negative skill. 
Zombie: we're on the subject of big guys now 
Milo: Glad to hear it, Jervis. 
jklewis:: Yeah 
Milo: Jim -- right now we're talking about Big Guys, but we'll discuss 
skills/traits next. 
Scortch: hey now kurt dont be ragging on us lil guys 
AndyHall: The power of democracy ;-) 
Jervis: Kurtangle - I agree, Wild animal and frenzy should force a player to 
block or blitz an adjacent opponent. 
Razorwing: Hehe 
Scortch: jim - chaos dwarfs with slaying axes suck :P 
AndyHall: I hope i dont have to credit everybody in the next mag... 
Zombie: Jervis: so you'll change that rule in the next BBmag? 
AndyHall: Have you got a president yet :-) 
Milo: Jervis -- I think a question was raised about teams without access to 
Big Guys. 
jklewis:: No. 
Ioda: speaking of the next mag..is there a way to just get a subscription for those of un in the states? 
Milo: In the modest proposal, this was addressed by allowing them to have 
additional position players. 
Milo: Have you considered something like that? 
Jervis: Zombie - I'll try out an alternative and think about it (hey, I could be 
president too!) 
Zombie: and those with too much access (namely chaos) 
AndyHall: he he anyway I''ll stay on topic 
Kurtangle: Hey!!! Jervis agrees with me!! I have a future in the games developing industry! Whaddya 
say Jervis, need an assistant??? 
Scortch: like ioda says 
Milo: Ioda: I believe you can subscribe via GWUS mail order, or will be able 
to once BB Mag 1 is available here. 
CeleTheRef: ha ha ha, good, Kurtangle 
Scortch: young dragons work ok for high elves 
jklewis:: Kurt: I'm sure you can write for the BBMag. They always accept 
submissions. 
AndyHall: Ioda, Jervis is in the states next week dealing with those very 
issues. 
Jervis: Milo is right on the subs. We may also run a 'horribly expensive air-
mail sub' for those that want th mag quicker from the UK 
AndyHall: (no work for me next week He He 
jklewis:: What's "horribly expensive?: 
Zombie: does anyone have more questions about big guys, or can we change topic? 
Ioda: Great, thanks 
Doppelganger: the high elves currently have no big guys, in your leagues, has this caused a problem in 
that they are unable to match the strength of other teams offenses, or do they seem to be able to balance 
out with just their innate team against teams with all the e 
Doppelganger: extras 
Scortch: im done with big guys 
Jervis: Milo: With regard teams that don't have the 
big guys, this doesn't worry me - if we get the big guys balanced not having them is not unbalancing (does 
that make sense?!?) 
AndyHall: Doppelganger, I'll let Jervis deal with that one... 
Milo: That does make sense to me, although it seems to me that Big Guys 
will always have some advantages over normal players. 
Zombie: i still think that the chaos are far too good with all those big guys. so what if they can't use team 
rerolls? just give them all pro as their first skill! 
Doppelganger: it does to a degree, mummys are balanced and gutter runners are balanced, and so are 
dwarves, but that doesn't mean a team with all of them is balanced 
Scortch: a strength 5 guard is very handy to have i agree milo 
Milo: Would you be opposed to giving High Elves 0-4 Dragon Warriors, 
instead of drying to develop a big guy for them? 
Scortch: just as a example 
duggage: Zombie: wouldn't work. You can't combine skills anymore. 
Jervis: Milo - all players have some advantages over other players, that's what 
makes the team interesting. In my experience its what a team doesn't have that gives it its character. 
Jim: Like Scortch said, our league uses Young Dragons for High Elf teams. It helps to balance out things 
a bit. 
Doppelganger: Milo: but then they get more powerful in leagues where there 
are no big guys 
Milo: Don't misunderstand me, Jervis -- I like that Dwarves and High Elves 
and Dark Elves don't have big guys. 
Zombie: duggage:so you're saying that pro is not very handy anymore, is that it? 
Scortch: doppleganger i would play with no big guys if others did not 
AndyHall: Milo: I dont know how Jervis feels 
bvut I'm loathe to mess around withg the original "big 12" teams. 
Milo: But a lot of people then claim that they are underpowered compared to
 the other races. 
jklewis:: Jervis: I'm curious about Special 
Weapons. Are they peaked? Do they get skills and has this been a problem in testing? 
duggage: Zombie: I am saying that you can't easily make up for TRRs on big guys for chaos by giving 
them pro for their first skill. 
Scortch: i dont know bout that duggage 
duggage: I'd be more inclined to make them nasty by giving them Piling On or Break Tackle. :) 
Doppelganger: zombie, I'm saying that pro is only a useful skill if you don;t have any others 
Jervis: XZombie - with regard overpowered Chaos teams, if I see this 
happening I'll reeel them back in. So far its not what I've heard. 
Doppelganger: or if you plan on doing things that you never planned on the person doing 
jklewis:: Andy: You should start a Chaos team with that Big Guy strategy 
in your league and see what you can make of it. Send us a report later. 
Jervis: jklewis: - players with secret weapons can 
still develop new skills. 
Milo: Let's move on to the subject of skills and away from big guys for now. 
AndyHall: jklewis:, at he moment I'm playing 
a lot of Battlefleet gothic but I'll be joining the new HQ league next season , after Xmas so tyou never 
know. 
Zombie: so is it then possible for a deathroller to have block? i hope not for everyone else's sake... 
Milo: Jervis -- what use is Strong Arm, now? 
Jervis: A suggestion - for 40K there is a web site where peole send game 
results. It shows win/loss ratios etc. Could anybody do this for BB? 
jklewis:: Jervis: Skills question. Is Strong Arm 
now useless with one skill per action? 
Doppelganger: but what about detriments on star players, the death roller would be horribly powerful if 
it came with block, and now the person can still develop block after getting the deathroller (same problem 
with ball and chain) 
jklewis:: Jervis: I am working on this. 
Milo: Jervis -- we did some informal polling like that on the BBOWL-L list a 
year or so ago. I'll try to find the results for you. 
Anthonytbbf: My league site has win loss ratios. 
jklewis:: Jervis: I'll send you the URL privately, 
it's in beta testing. 
AndyHall: I knew the strong arm one was coming... 
Milo: We collected several thousand game results, I believe. 
CeleTheRef: tks, I run an entire solo-league for 2 years..... 
Zombie: could we stick to secret weapons before we move on to skills? the block problem hasn't been 
answered yet 
jklewis:: Andy: What;s you feeling on the Strong Arm thing? 
Zombie: the question is: can a deathroller or a fanatic use the block skill? 
Anthonytbbf: Perhaps Strong Arm would be better as a trait? 
Jervis: Strong arm is useless, I'm going to change it or lose it. 
[LOGIN] Pszi 
AndyHall: I agree it is now basically the same skill, we could make strong 
arm a trait... 
Bevan: Did anyone answer the earlier Q about whether deathrollers have the same stats for all races? 
Milo: Anthony -- if Strong Arm was a trait, no one could get it. 
Razorwing: Add some distance to passing, perhaps? Like Long Throw, from 2nd, ed.? 
Scortch: oh great there go several of may players 
Jervis: You should not be able to use block with a secret weapon, I'll look 
into clearing this up in BBMag 2 
Anthonytbbf: Milo: I know, but it could be added to some players. 
Jim: Every passer in our league has Strong Arm. Bad news. 
Bevan: Can you let Strong Arm make short pass Dump Offs? 
jklewis:: Andy: Making it a trait is spurious... you could never take the 
skill. 
Zombie: well you can block with a deathroller, can't you? 
Milo: To return to an earlier question, do all deathrollers have the same stats? 
Zombie: (otherwise he's totally useless) 
Scortch: u could originally bevan but not in 4th if im correct 
Doppelganger: also, what skills are innate to a secret weeapon (say the deathroller) because strength isn't 
mentioned in the 3rd edition description, but if you buy the deathroller for someone and they stay at 3 str 
that would bite 
Scortch: zombie u can block but not use the block skill is what he means , i think 
Jim: Strong Arm and Dump Off still works, but that's not very usefull if that's all it does. 
duggage: John: unless you made it a trait that all passer positions had. 
Jervis: Guys, I'll have to look up stuff on the death rollas, can't answer oiff the
 top of my head. I'll feed back to the mailing list once I've looked things up. 
Scortch: or for at least certain races duggage 
AndyHall: Spurious, I like that word, I must use it in a future artcle. 
Zombie: another question: can the player leave his secret weapon in the dugout at any drive or does he 
always have to use it? 
jklewis:: duggage: True, but then it's just like giving them all +1 to 
passing. 
jklewis:: Andy: Thanks. 
Jervis: Zombe: players with secret weapons must use them (they love 'em!) 
jklewis:: Jervis: Another thing to think about 
with DeathRollers is that you can't kill the drivers. If they get skills this is a bad thing. 
Kurtangle: Jervis: Does the the Stunty mutation work for all the dodges a 
gutter runner makes, or just the one...(in the 4th ed rules)....You know, since, you can now only use one 
skill per action....????????? 
Scortch: in 3rd edition i preferred strong arm over accurate , but now i dont know 
duggage: John: Which might not be bad though. It will help ensure that the passing game is with the 
teams that actually have passers. 
Milo: JKL -- except they'll get prohibitively expensive with the new 
appearance fees. =) 
jklewis:: duggage: Good point. Milo: Also a 
good point. 
gkenta 
Jervis: To Scortch - there is only a problem if you have both strong arm and 
accurate. 
AndyHall: Can I ask as anyone actually played using 4th Ed yet? 
Scortch: i dont have 4th yet andy 
Milo: I was initially very resistant towards 4th Ed rules. I'm starting to get a 
better sense for them now, though. 
Kurtangle: I have played 4th ed Andy... 
Jim: What is the reasoning for making Dauntless one of the only positive skills that's a trait? 
Anthonytbbf: Still waiting for my BB Mag to arrive ;) 
Milo: Andy -- I don't have the rules yet, but I intend to start a playtest league
 to decided whether or not I want to adopt them in my primary league. 
Ioda: me too 
jklewis:: Andy: duggage and I started to play, but he had an emergency 
and we are playing Sunday instead. 
Milo: We've been very happy with the Modest Proposal so far, though. 
Zombie: Andy: not here, but we might try it soon (this week maybe) 
duggage: John: That way a high elf linetype and a pheonix warrior will be separated by more than the 
pass skill. 
Jim: We're waiting for our store to get them nov 20. 
Scortch: thats what we have been thinking milo 
Doppelganger: not yet, sin the middle of a league, the rules are going up for consideration when the 
league ends in a month as a way to do the next league 
Gregg: Yup. We've played several games here. One of the amusing things is that we have been playing 
our teams differently. Elves have been playing more like Elves (when they played more like Chaos or 
Dwarves) 
Jervis: To Jim - Dauntless has to be a trait otherwise it won't work with the 
new one skill per action rule. 
jklewis:: duggage: I like the idea. Might have to call it something else 
though... Coach "You got a Strong Arm boy, you should be a passer." No, I guess that works. 
duggage: JK and I will probably be smacking down tomorrow. Goes doubly because I may not be going 
home today. :( 
AndyHall: How did you find it Kurt? 
Milo: Honestly, Jervis & andy, the new rules are a radical departure. There 
may be some strong points to them, but I've got 18 coaches in my league, and I can't just force something 
this new on them without testing it out first. 
Scortch: how many get dauntless then jervis ? 
Scortch: almost all of my skinks had it 
Jim: Jervis,only troll slayers get dauntless? 
Bevan: Why isn't Stunty a trait. It would not be a problem if other players could not get it? 
Kurtangle: We thought the old bloodbowl was dying on its ass...getting a bit stale, ya know.....so the 
new ed is going straight in to our new league.. 
Jervis: To Bevan, I limited making skills into traits as much as possible 
Scortch: wow kurt our league has been very fun , but then we have lots of the optional rules 
Kurtangle: The biggest test for the coaches will be getting used to the one skill per action rule.....but I 
have faith in them...! 
Jim: You can use your one skill per turn to dauntless if you were an Elf, couldn't you. No Block, no 
problem. 
jklewis:: Jervis: can you enlighten us as to why 
you limited yourself? 
Doppelganger: but dauntless is a trait, only prince morian has it 
Doppelganger: for elves anyway, no one else can get it 
Jervis: to jklewis: - I didn't know I had limited 
myslef! Can you explain more? 
Zombie: A question that has come out frequently on the BBC: if a player can use only one skill per 
action, how come the opposing player can use all of his? (eg block, dodge, side step, stand firm, diving 
tackle, etc.) 
AndyHall: Kurt, I've talked to the local games club (not the staff league) 
and they have found very entertaining especally when it comes to choosing THat skill which will get the 
ball into the opponents half. 
jklewis:: You said "I limited making skills into traits as much as possible " 
Jervis: To zombie - its very difficult to remember if a player has used a skill or 
not so far, so we limuited it to only applying when a player is taking an action 
Bevan: Does the 1 skill limit only in attack make the game more defensive? 
Jim: Doppleganger, I know, but why does Dauntless have to be a trait? 
Zombie: Have you considered that this will make defenses almost impenetrable? 
AndyHall: Jim as Jervis said Dauntless has to be a trait because it works 
with other skills. 
Doppelganger: I don't know. 
Scortch: that is our concern too zombie 
Scortch: our dwarf teams have several with - block, dodge , standfirm 
Doppelganger: I thkn jim meant, why can't anyone else get it 
jklewis:: Zombie: Scortch: They've been playing with these rules, and I'm 
guessing people win. 
Jervis: to jklewis: - I see! I didn't want to change 
too many of the rules - I was trying to only change things I thought needed changing 
jklewis:: Andy: Have games been more defensive in the test league? 
Doppelganger: I don't see why traits can't be gotten be anyone, dauntless is a fairly staple skill and no 
one would take bonehead on a choice anyway 
Zombie: Do people always win games 1-0 or 2-1 with the one-skill limit? 
Kurtangle: Andy: We have a big problem wit hthe special play cards in our leagues...how do you find 
them??? They seemed cool at first...they livened things up..but now they just seem to add to the random 
element of the game...Its all very well saying they even the game out between better and poorer players, 
but we WANT the better players to win!!! THey deserve it!! 
Gregg: We've had a few 3-0 games here with one skill limit and I think one 4-0 with a newer player. 
duggage: I don't think dauntless should be 'staple' myself. 
Jervis: To Milo - the new rules are not *that* radical a change. They sertve to 
narrow the gap between starting and top end teams is all. Most of the changes simply sort out rules 
problems by attacking the underlying game mechanic that causes the problem in the first place. 
AndyHall: jklewis:, Not really there is only so 
many skills that can be used in the opponents turn 
Jim: OK guys, I must still be asleep. I'll think about that Dauntless thing later. 
Razorwing: The division between 'traits' and 'skills' is seen only as an abstract rule, for the sake of game 
mechanics. Why was such a haphazard modification made? 
Scortch: thats all gregg ? 
Milo: I'm surprised there are no changes made to Multiple Block, which is a 
skill that has caused no end of confusion. 
duggage: Dauntless essentially allows an ag team to match a strength team's strength. There isn't a single 
skill that allows the reverse. 
Jervis: To Zombie - I'm going to go over the special play cards in BBMag 2.
 Send us your Q&A and we'll deal with it there. I'll probably rewrite asome of the more troublesome 
cards 
AndyHall: WE'll be dealing with special play cards in BBmag2 in a lot 
detail you can always not use them if you all hate them. 
Gregg: Scortch: as far as high scoring games, yes. No Wood Elves or Skaven playing this season. I'm 
just saying that tasm still score with the new rules. 
jklewis:: Andy: Have you seen the Grab Bag cards that the BBlist came up 
with? New special play cards? 
CeleTheRef: pit trap, burst ball in primis 
AndyHall: no 
Milo: Andy, have you and Jervis seen the "Grab Bag" of cards developed by 
the BBOWL-L league? If so, what do you think of it? 
jklewis:: http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/~chz/bloodbowl/cards.html 
Scortch: even my lizardmen can get a 4 score with 3rd edition tho gregg 
CeleTheRef: I suggested some more of 'em 
Scortch: and i havent even really tried to be vicious 
AndyHall: send an email to the fanatic adress and we'll have a look at them 
from there. 
jklewis:: Andy: Okay. 
Milo: I've put the Grab Bag cards in PDF format for people to print and play 
with, but a lot of people would like to see them printed on card as official. 
Gregg: Scortch: That was an old-timer playing a newbie I'm afraid. 
Milo: JKL -- I'll send them the PDF version. 
Jervis: To milo - most of the problems with multiple block are dealt with by
 the 'one skill rule'. One of the reasons for putting the rule in was that it dealt with a lot of rule problems 
by making them null and void - 'stacked skills' caused no end of rules questions. 
Zombie: Jervis and Andy: I have no problem with the special play cards, i love them. But now with the 
4th edition you should consider getting rid of bankrupcy and the like, which become too powerful with 
the appearance fee. 
Kurtangle: JERVIS: When will BBmag2 be out in Ireland. Our new 
league is starting in about a month's time but we could stall a while if the mag was out soon enough...? 
Jim: Milo, isn't Frenzy a trait too. I thought you could use one trait and one skill per turn? 
Milo: Jervis -- that's very true. 
CeleTheRef: I may send you some new ones I suggested. 
AndyHall: We havent even started on it yet!! see Jervis's last newsletter 
about how many mags we make in a year! 
Scortch: sounds like even fewer scores with 4th then gregg 
Milo: Jim -- Yes, it is. But if Dauntless were a skill, you'd be unable to use 
Block, Tackle, or Mighty Blow on any block you use Dauntless with. 
Scortch: and isnt that the whole point of bloodbowl , to score ? 
Jervis: With regard trait be a game balance thing, it was needed to make the 
one skill rule work, and I liked the one skill rule for reasons mentioned and because it helps play balance. 
*However* I think the idea of skills and traits is a good one, and if I ever get to publish a new edition will 
wortk this up more. For the moment I'll limit myself to using it when needed. (phew!) 
Scortch: any one of those with dauntless is not that powerful milo 
Gregg: Been really about the same for us Scortch. No noticable difference yet.. 
Milo: Andy, Jervis: as a side note, many of us have 
lost our original Block dice. Can they be re-released as a separate blister again? 
Scortch: ok i will wait to test it gregg 
Jim: Milo-that's fine. You can choose to use Dauntless or block if Dauntless was a skill, right? 
AndyHall: You can buy Block dice loose from mail order (I know this for 
the UK) I'm not sure about US though 
Jervis: To Milo - I'll get block dice added to the on-line store asap (we have 
them!) 
Milo: Jim, yes, you could. But I think Jervis intended for you to be able to use 
Block AND Dauntless, which is why he made Dauntless a trait. 
jklewis:: Jervis: Yah! 
Milo: JErvis - any chance for a Fanatic US store so we don't have to pay 
overseas shipping? 
jklewis:: Milo: and Dauntless and Frenzy are 
key together as well. 
CeleTheRef: jsut grab dice of a different color and make a table with the symbols 
Zombie: any more questions about skills? i have a major one about the appearance fee! 
Kurtangle: TO ALL: Do you guys have a rule about the following: Can a player pick up a mini and 
check out every possible movement he can make, working out the best possible action to take or does the
 player have to make a move if for example he's still holding the mini and has stepped into a tackle zone. 
ie . can he take the move back and go somewhere else... 
Jervis: As an aside, we'll be reprinting th Deathzone rules early next year. I 
plan to try to make the card bits available as pdf files to down-load, as i can' afford to print them too. At 
least this means that BB and DZ will be available again. 
Zombie: Kurt: we're pretty loose about this 
Milo: Kurt -- I've always allowed my opponents to retract any actions they 
haven't rolled dice for yet. 
jklewis:: Kurt: that's a bit nit picky. We are very liberal. If you don't roll 
dice, you can move your guy anywhere. 
Scortch: we use the chess rule normally kurt, if u let go of it its done , otherwise u can check your 
options 
Milo: Glad to hear it. Will the DZ rules be purchased just as a separate 
rulebook? 
duggage: Kurt: You can use your finger to "check out" the possible movement. We usually let someone
 pick the least costly route for movement without hassle, but sometimes we do play "gotcha" with a 
diving tackle. 
jklewis:: Jervis: Thank you very much for doing 
that. 
Jervis: Kurt - use the chess piece rule. 
AndyHall: Milo: Yes 
Milo: Great. 
Zombie: no more questions on skills all? 
Gregg: Jervis: Does this mean you'll be selling the board supplement as well 
too? 
CeleTheRef: I think that until you keep contact with the mini, you can move it as you want. when you 
release it, the move (if legal) is done 
Milo: I think skills are about done. 
Kurtangle: TO ALL: It seems like the other person helps the opposing player out. usually if he walks 
into a tackle zone the opposing player says it's one of his tackle zones. 
Jervis: To Gregg - you can get it from UK mail order now, in the US any day 
now. 
jklewis:: Appearance Fee's next then? 
[LOGIN] Okoskinen 
Milo: Jervis, Andy: can you tell us when to expect the next miniature release 
from Fanatic? Would that be the treeman? 
duggage: Did someone ask about Horns as a trait and I miss it? :) 
Milo: Yes, let's move on to appearance fees. 
AndyHall: Yes the Treeman which seems to be in mould room limbo at the 
moment 
jklewis:: duggage, sneak your question in quick. 
Zombie: Andy and Jervis: the dreaded appearance fee. Did you consider the 
impact on 2 very experienced teams playing each other? The one who wins will simply be the one with 
the most money in their treasury! 
Bevan: How many >51SPP players do teams usually keep? Can they afford more than one? 
Jervis: There's alo a coach for the Amazons, and another cheerleader... 
duggage: I'm just curious about whether horns wouldn't better be suited as a trait than a skill. 
Milo: It looks great, by the way. (the treeman) Who sculpted it and the 
amazons? 
Scortch: what bout mutations tho duggage ? 
Jim: Why are appearance fees so high. Maybe it's just me, but it could still be effective at a lower level. 
AndyHall: Mark Bedford did the treeman, umm the Amazons ..Jervis? 
Scortch: Yes i have an old lizardman team with bout 13 with more than 50 spps ? 
Zombie: Jim: I would make the fees 5 times lower if i had a choice! 
Jervis: To duggage, you could be right about horns, but if I can avoid chnging 
it then for the time being I'd rather leave it as a skill. 
duggage: What about them, Scortch? It would just mean that only beastmen and otherst that began with 
horns would be able to have them. 
Bevan: Building up goo dplayers is a major part of the fun. The appearance fees really kill this part of it. 
Kurtangle: I'm glad to see the death of the old star players, they were too much a part of the 
game...Griff has had his day.....Let him shine on in the hall of fame 
Jim: Bevan-our league usually has teams with at least 2 players above 51SPPs. 
Jervis: Andy - The Amzons were made by Trish Marrison and Mark Harrison 
AndyHall: Jervis I'll answer the model questions you deal with the 
Appearence fee, he he 
duggage: To Jervis. I'm fine with it either way. Just a thought. :) 
jklewis:: Andy: in league play, how many 51+ SPP players to teams tend 
to keep? 
Jervis: The appearnace fee rules keep the game much more balanced 
Okoskinen: Keep it more balanced? 
duggage: I've never felt that players with even 100 spps were unbalanced. Stars yes(prefabs).. but the TR 
impact of 100 spps is balance enough usually. 
Gregg: I agree with the game balance part. It's going to be much easier to hang onto the newer players in 
our league. I have seen mnay leave because they could not compete with the established teams. 
Kurtangle: The old star players dominated play too much.... 
Jervis: Wooops, sent that last one too soon - they keep the game more 
balanced, and allow discussion of what to do about super teams to take place from a sensible starting 
point. 
Jim: Jervis- I think that it's already balanced by the Handicap and winnings for the new teams. High 
appearance fees take away a part of the game. Big part. 
AndyHall: You'll have to ask our league commish that, since I didnt play in 
the last season. But there was a few 
Bevan: Do you still use the Banrupty and similar cards with appearance fees? 
jklewis:: I agree with Jervis on this one. 
[LOGIN] Alan 
Jervis: To Bevan - I'll go over this in BBMag 2 (banruptcy etc). 
AndyHall: It does open up the field and allow you to place teams in 
conferences 
Okoskinen: Whats the point of having experienced players when a) You can't use them, and b) their skill 
rolls aren't really that good anymore? 
Milo: True, but a good commissioner can resolve this by separating teams 
into two divisions until new teams are ready for the "big boys". 
Milo: Why do you feel the need to introduce an artificial limit? 
Scortch: i agree with okoskinen 
Scortch: only if u have enouf teams milo 
Jervis: I also know that coaches like building up there teams and devloping 
players, it just needs to happen in a way that doesn't unbalance the game. 
jklewis:: Milo: not all commissioners are good 
ones, you shouldn't rely on that. 
Jim: I guess our league is the only one that has new teams take advantage of the big handicaps. 
Milo: Many of us felt the offset in team rating was enough to handicap the big 
teams. 
Scortch: <-- having a bad typing day 
Milo: Certainly with the reduction in effectiveness of mighty blow and other 
injury skills, new teams don't have as much to fear in terms of casualties from the big teams. 
jklewis:: I've always felt that team growth was the dirty little secret in BB. 
Teams kept growing and there was no incentive to stop it. 
Zombie: I'll restate my question since it got no answer: has the impact of the appearance fee been 
considered when 2 very experienced teams play together? The team who wins will just be the one with 
the most money in their treasury! 
Bevan: Instead of appearance fees, why not limit good players by the number of games played rather than 
SPPs gained? 
Anthonytbbf: Our league does that as well, we've never really had a problem with new teams going 
against high TR teams. 
Jervis: Expeience in the HO League shows that teams do develop, and gain 
their own star players. You can run more than obne, you just need to be a good coach and win matches! 
Okoskinen: Yes, building up teams is fun, but when my special blitzer, whom I love and caress every 
night decides to be too good to play without a fee, I think.... not anymore 
duggage: Jervis: Have you considered reducing the impact of spps on Team 
Rating to compensate for the combination of weakened skills-use and the appearance fees? 
Gregg: Funny thing here New rules, IGMEOY, etc. and we still have at least a death a game! 
AndyHall: I dont agree with you there Zmbie skill and luck of the dice will 
still come into it. 
CeleTheRef: I LOVE IGMEOY 
duggage: I say this because I think the impact has been pretty big on team developement. 
jklewis:: Cele: Perhaps you should marry her. 
Jervis: Zombie - It does not seem to have been a problem in our league 
(money deciding matches) 
CeleTheRef: ha ha 
Okoskinen: IGMEOY makes sense, yes. I believe it to be the best foul rule sofar 
Scortch: appearance fees make peaked useful 
jklewis:: duggage: I don't understand what you are implying. How aould 
reducing SPPs contribution to TR compensate? 
Zombie: Andy: if one team has 10 players missing and the other team only 2, how is the first one going 
to win? Experience just won't cut it. 
Okoskinen: I agree with Scortch. Playing it on your star blitzer, with 26 SPP's.... =) 
Anthonytbbf: We've been using IGMEOY for ages, it's an excellent rule. 
Zombie: Scortch: it says that peaked players still get SPPs now. 
jklewis:: Zombie: no one would have 10 players missing. 
Jervis: To Duggage: So far no changes have been required. The appearance 
fee rules on their own work well for us. I'll keep on monitoring things, but _in practise_ they seem to 
have less effect than cochjes think they will. 
duggage: John: Simple. The big hang-up with home-grown players is their SPPs. 
Alan: Zombie: I't salways been like that... missing players is bad! 
CeleTheRef: I personally prefer the "The Ref is Never Wrong" , with the referee on the pitch..... I use to 
put myself 
duggage: But that used to be somewhat mitigated by skill combos. 
Zombie: A very experienced team could easily have 10 players missing due to fund shortage. 
Scortch: thats ridiculous zombie 
AndyHall: Thats a very extreme situation, if the league commish has the 
right regulations in place like higher prize and gate money for supoer leagues (somthing I want to cover 
in BBmag2 ) then that is a rare occurance 
jklewis:: Zombie: that team would never grow that big... you would fire 
players first. 
duggage: Few to no skill combos now... and on top of that you charge even more if they've earned Spps 
that reduce their teams gate earnings. 
Okoskinen: Zombie: They do? So after they have reached their top days, they become better? Makes a 
lot of sense, as it always seems to do 
Kurtangle: Hello 
Milo: Zombie -- I think no team would ever reach that point with this new 
rule. It would be prohibitively expensive to maintain that many players on your roster. 
Scortch: if u are peaked why should u get spps ? 
Jim: Appearance fees prevent you from wanting to gain skills, as well as becoming attached to a player 
or 2, IMO. 
jklewis:: Jim: One player at 51+ is not hard to keep around. 
duggage: It just seems like adding insult to injury. 
Jervis: Zombie - I understand the point you are making, but I don't think it 
will happen often enough to cause a problem. 
Kurtangle: Leave her alone, she's not here to defend herself!!! 
Zombie: But there are teams right now that are that big, and even bigger. Some coaches love playing 
super team against super team kind of games. They won't be able to anymore. 
duggage: John: Sure... but 4 is pretty hard. 
Okoskinen: You believe? On what basis? 
Milo: Jervis -- you might consider allowing teams to pay those players in 
advance. That would allow a team to get money out of their treasury where cards can't affect it, and will 
ensure they have players available for big games. 
AndyHall: Ask David beckham if he would be happy being paid the same as 
he did in his early days (He's a very famous footballer to anyone outside the UK) 
jklewis:: Zombie: See Andy's comment about new rules for higher 
powered leagues. 
duggage: John: Rosters are only 16 deep. 
Bevan: Star Players have a nominal SPP value for appearance fees. Does this also count for team rating? 
Jim: Exactly what Zombie just said! 
Alan: Zombie-I think people will start new teams for 4th ed. 
jklewis:: duggage: true. 
CeleTheRef: silly question: how many nigglins have Ronaldo? 
Kurtangle: David Beckham lives in a greedy commercial world, which Warhammer isn't ...greedy maybe, 
but the David Beckham comparison doesn't work well here... 
Milo: I don't think people were ever intended to use 3rd Ed. teams in 4th Ed. 
Scortch: after one season i ended up with 5 players over 50 spp ! 
duggage: John: One coach(Eric) mentioned that he might not be able to continue his dark elves due to 
appearance fees. And I don't feel that such should be the case. It seems like too much moderation of team 
design. 
jklewis:: Scortch: You would have fired two in 4th ed. 
duggage: John: I'm in favour of some. Just not so much that it is overwhelming(like vanilla fouling). =) 
Okoskinen: After five games with an elf team, I can guarantee at least one guy with 51 SPP's. And the 
rest of the team with skills too. 
AndyHall: I disagree kurt, greed does play a BIG part in the Warhammer 
world.. ask any Dwarf 
jklewis:: duggage: But eric was kicking major butt this season. 
Scortch: after all the work i did to get them up there duggage ? 
Zombie: But that was my point. Some people like playing super team against super team, but they won't 
be able to anymore. Unless they win 50 times more money. Someone on the BBC said he'd need 875k to 
have all his players on the pitch in his human team. 
Scortch: who retires in pro real sports after one season ??? 
duggage: Yeah. And guess what... he lost to a first season team.. without appearance fees. :) 
Alan: You can play super teams with house rules 
Jervis: Guys, I'm going to have to go soon (or my wife will kill me : )). 
However I want to say that I do undertand the fears you have with the appearance fee rules. I'll keep on 
evaluating them, but should say that so far in our league they have made BB better not worse. At the end 
of the day the game needs to be balanced and even, and super teams were not balanced by the handicap 
system aginst starting 
AndyHall: Zombie see my earlier comments 
jklewis:: TO ALL: I'm heading out for lunch. I want to thank everyone for 
coming and give a special thanks to both Jervis, Andy and Milo for all their work. 
Jervis: teams. This needed to be fixed. Having 'super-league' will be the next 
step in developing the rules. 
Anthonytbbf: In the Warhammer world, BB isn't structured like real life pro sports. 
duggage: John: I think he kicked major butt because of the season gap in the beginning. But that evened 
out. :) 
Kurtangle: JERVIS: I have to say that as someone who loves the 
background to all the games (especially WFRP), my own team is based around an idea: My team are a 
collection of guys taken from the streets and taverns around the Altquarter, roughnecks with good hearts, 
criminals who can play ball. On a basic level they play ball, work hard for one another and stick together. 
It doesn't fit in well that>>> 
Milo: I'd like to thank Jervis and Andy on behalf of all of us. 
jklewis:: duggage: for you... but I think the gap would have been smaller 
with app fees. We can talk more sunday. 
Milo: This was a great chance to express our feelings and get a sense for the 
ideas behind the rules. 
duggage: Ja. Thanks to all for showing. :) 
Scortch: yes thank u jervis 
Zombie: Andy: can teams expect to make 875k per game? 
Milo: Everyone else is welcome to continue the discussion, if you like. 
duggage: You busy today John? :) 
Scortch: and thank u andy 
Kurtangle: JERVIS: continued....>>> one of them becomes an 
asshole, too big for his boots etc....it's crap and destroyers the whole theme of my team!!! 
Anthonytbbf: Thanks JJ and Andy! 
Milo: Jervis, Andy: would either of you be willing to do this again at some 
point? 
Okoskinen: Why do super teams have to be balanced against newbie teams? So that new teams can win? 
How often do you see Italy winning Finland in hockey? (Yeah, a Finn speaking) 
Jervis: Thanks to you all. We must do this again soon. 
Razorwing: Inother words: Super-Teams are abberations, with regard to the spirit and intent of the 
original rules. 
Jim: see ya Jervis. thanks for showing up. 
Gregg: Thanks for hosting this Milo. And thank you Jervis and Andy for a chance to hear your thoughts.
 Good bye all! 
Alan: Thanks JJ and Andy! Keep upt he good work! 
Razorwing: Thanks, Jervis! 
Jim: Thanks Andy. 
Zombie: Ok see you Jervis, and thanks. What about next saturday? 
jklewis:: duggage what time? 
Bevan: Any chance of starting 2 hours later next time? (I had to start at 4am) 
AndyHall: Its something we'll be working on but think of it as reaching 
Man Utd status, they have a lot of expensive player to pay so of course they have a lot more income. 
Jervis: Thanks all. I'll look up stuff on the deathroll and pot it to the list next 
week. See ya! 
Milo: And thanks to everone else who showed up and participated. 
Okoskinen: I wont say thank you for 4th, just nice try. But thanks for the game. It's WAY too addictive 
and fun... 
Kurtangle: JERVIS ANS ANDY:: Thanks alot....really enjoyed talking... 
CeleTheRef: thanks JJ 
Milo: Bevan -- I'll look into that possibility for the next one. 
Milo: Where are you located? 
AndyHall: Its something we'll be working on but think of it as reaching 
Man Utd status, they have a lot of expensive player to pay so of course they have a lot more income. 
Scortch: sounds like australia milo 
AndyHall: dare say me and JJ will digest evrthing on Monday. 
Bevan: to Milo - Tasmania, Australia 
Zombie: But 875k per game is really excessive. I think that making a division for super teams where the
 appearance fee does not apply would be better. 
Milo: Bevan -- we'll see what we can do, but it may be tough to find a time 
that works for the US, UK, and AUS. 
duggage: Well thanks for showing. Was a good thing. :) 
Razorwing: I was wondering where BBMaster was. 
Okoskinen: So what was said before I came in here? Something about skills? 
Razorwing: Now I know: sleeping. : ) 
Milo: Okoskinen -- I'll be posting up the entire chat log on the website in a 
few minutes. 
Scortch: i agree zombie 
Bevan: Zombie: Leagues with enough players could have divisions with different points at which 
appearance fees cut in. 
Alan: Zombie - I was thinking the same thing. Assume higher gates, but higher salaries... maybe bump all 
the appearance fees up one or two steps? 
Kurtangle: TO ALL: Thanks for your time, was fun indeed.... 
Okoskinen: Great, in Zip package? 
Kurtangle: MILO: Thanks!!! 
Alan: I mean 25k at 151 SPPS, etc. 
Razorwing: Perhaps teams could apply for entry into the 'super team' league, where appearance fees are 
reduced, or do not apply at all? 
AndyHall: Well, the ball is always in Jervis's court all I can do is "whisper 
in his ear" thats why its one skill per player not TEam turn as Jervis originall wanted it 
Milo: You're welcome, Kurt. 
duggage: Okay. I need to split too. Bandwidth and machine setup issues. 
duggage: Peace out all! 
Milo: Okoskinen -- no, it'll be just a web page you can read through. 
Milo: See ya, Doug. 
Razorwing: Per team turn?!? Yikes! 
AndyHall: I told him we'd get lynched! 
Scortch: yes u would have andy 
Okoskinen: Ah, good enough. Thanks. 
duggage: See you Milo! 
Milo: Probably likely. 
Okoskinen: Well, I guess you could expect it , AndyHall 
Zombie: Now that everyone is going, i'm wondering. Has anything new actually been said here? 
[LOGIN] Jim 
Razorwing: The changes to the rules system still seems like a hack-job to me, though. 
Kurtangle: ANDY: Don't you dare take my name in vain!!! 
Razorwing: A band-aid where a complete re-write was needed. 
Scortch: no but i have learned alot zombie 
Scortch: razorwing i think u have a point 
Okoskinen: NAHHHAHHAAAA!! Another victory for the glorious team Finland!!! 
Razorwing: I think for the sole purpose of 'confirmation' this chat has been beneficial. 
AndyHall: Right I'm off so you guys can talk about whats been said in 
pece, I think I'm off for a pint after all that.# 
Okoskinen: Yes, hockey is nice =) 
Kurtangle: RAZORWING: It's a really big band aid! 
Scortch: bye andy have fun be safe 
Razorwing: Thanks, Andy! 
Jim: Well, I think it's hard to change people's minds either way, but it was good to see other opinions. 
How about doing this again sometime? 
Scortch: and thanks again 
Kurtangle: bye Andy 
Bevan: We didn't cover the handoff rule, which makes a huge difference to game play 
Zombie: See you Andy, and thanks for showing up. 
Razorwing: Very true, Kurt. Alas, very true. : ) 
Milo: Jim -- I'm going to talk to Andy and Jervis about doing it again. 
Milo: I'd like it to be a regular bi-weekly or monthly thing. 
Kurtangle: JIM: Nah, you guys are far too boring to be entertaining again! 
Okoskinen: What? Has the hand-off been changed too? My BBMag is still (hopefully) in mail 
AndyHall: Milo give us an e-mail If you want me top particpate in other 
chats , i rather enjoyed it ;-) 
Jim: Milo-Yes! I'll be there! 
Milo: Sure, I will, Andy. 
Bevan: Milo Thanks for organising this (even if it is such a ridiculous time) 
Milo: I'll announce any future chats on the bloodbowl.net website, BBC 
message boards, and the BBOWL-L list. 

Chat Ends